Join podcast host Veronica Klassen and guest Professional Geoscientist and CEO of Geoscientists Canada Paul Hubley in this discussion of geoscience communication and the future of geoscience. Hear from Paul on his career, life advice, and how we can start to create a more accurate perception of geoscience in society. Join us in discussing how Earth Science can help us wrestle with the big issues of our time, and the importance of relationship building, storytelling, and listening in addressing these issues.

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Episode Transcript:

Veronica Klassen

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Beneath Your Feet, a geoscience podcast. I’m Veronica Klassen, science communicator, geology enthusiast and your host. Here at the APGO Education Foundation, our mission is to spark curiosity and passion for the geology of Ontario. Whether you’re a geology nerd, science enthusiast, or nature lover, this podcast is for you. Join us as we geek out over fascinating geology, uncover the hidden stories and secrets of our extraordinary planet, and explore the captivating world beneath your feet.

Today I’m meeting with Paul Hubley, and we’re going to be talking a little bit about his career. We’re going to be talking about advice for students, the perception of Geoscience and society and some other really cool things. So yeah, if you want to just do like a quick introduction to yourself, that would be great.

Paul Hubley, P. Geo

Fantastic. Thank you very much. Thanks for inviting me here today. I’m excited to be here. So, Paul Hubley, I’m a male in my in my 50s, born in Halifax, living with my wife, Carolyn, and on any given day, between two and three of our five kids are living with us as. We also have a little chihuahua. And I’m a professional geoscientist.

Before we go further, geoscience is a regulated profession, just like engineering. So I’m a P. Geo. I’ve been in environmental consulting for 35 years, and the vehicle that brought me there is an education in Earth Sciences. I’ve got a Bachelors of Science with Honours in Geological Sciences from Brock University and a Master’s of Science in Earth Science from the University of Waterloo. That was way back when, in 1995 before the turn of the century, turn of the millennium.

Other than being a father and geoscientist, I’m a self described serial volunteer. Just to pick up skills and contribute in ways that work didn’t bring bring to me. I like to landscape and build things outside, as long as it doesn’t have to be too fancy, then count me in. I’m a measure once cut twice, kind of person. So I like to dabble. And I found out recently I like to do some creative writing, so I’m a bit of a groundskeeper as well.

Veronica

Yeah. And you’ve been doing some creative writing for our blog, which has been very fun. So you can check out those articles on our website. 

Paul

Yeah, it’s more of a dabbler. So the groundskeeper is the landscaping and the Creative Writing is a bit of a dabbler. So yeah, I hope that people, people do check it out.

Veronica

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. Thanks so much. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you first got interested in geoscience. Like what drew you to geology?

Paul

Well, I had always been drawn to the ocean. I was, being born in Halifax and going to Nova Scotia almost every year and summer. The ocean was just part of my life. And somewhere around grade, 10 or 11, I was convinced that I wanted to be in the Coast Guard. It would take me to the East Coast that I loved, keep me on the water for my entire life.

That’s what I was thinking and I thought I’d like to push myself. I like to travel all those things. And for some reason I just got the feeling that that particular thing was going to be too limiting. And also the 1980s, were the time of deep sea exploration, Jacques Cousteau was sending submarines down to deep sea vents and they were finding these black smokers in the bottom of the Mariana Trench and things like that.

And I just thought, this is amazing stuff. So then I switched from the Coast Guard to wanting to be a marine biologist. I was absolutely convinced I was going to be a marine biologist until I took a Grade 13 biology class and felt it wasn’t connecting. It was just a lot of memorization and and just technical terms I just wasn’t connecting with.

And I also had the opportunity to take a geology class in high school, which is pretty rare. That was inspiring. So, so at the same time, the biology bubble was deflating and the geology bubble was inflating. And I thought, wow, I decided that I really wanted to work on environmental issues. And this could be a vehicle to do it.

And it is. It has been. And I never look back. I don’t know where I got it in my head. I thought it was my idea and nobody else had this idea, but apparently I was wrong. There’s a whole industry that was building up at the time, so I probably picked it up somewhere else, but I took it on as my own.

Veronica

That’s awesome. Yeah. So you’ve been on quite a journey. What’s your best piece of advice for young students and how how can they figure out kind of what they are interested in, what they want to do?

Paul

Yeah, ultimately the journey was convoluted and it was difficult and there’s a lot of choices and that can be difficult for people. I guess I could say a couple of things here. One is that what you choose, if you’re lucky enough to feel it feels right like I was, then go for it, do it. But, you know, take heart.

If it if it doesn’t, if it’s not connecting quite as much as you thought, you could only make the best decision you can at the time that you make it. And the good thing is that people that started out in some things and ended up in other things and connected it in ways that they hadn’t even foreseen early on.

So, just start to start on a journey and and figure it out later. If you if you’re not absolutely sure, even if you don’t think you can do it, get out there and try allow yourself to fail. Some people, including my wife, just hate when I use that word “failed.” Nothing is a fail, she says. It’s it’s always can always serve as a bad example. But you learn a lot from what I call failing and just not not finishing something. Not doing something as best as you could. If you can surround yourself with people who can allow you to fail a little bit in a controlled environment, that it is absolutely the best thing that you could do. And I think when people start out, I think it’s understood that not everybody is going to get it right the first time.

So I think just be bold, try something even if you don’t think you can. There’s always going to be growth. Just keep trying. Keep, keep learning.

I think one piece of advice turned into about three there.

Veronica

That’s all good. The more the better. So yeah. Do you have any sort of examples from that, from your own life when you’ve done something like that?

Paul

Yeah, I was always the one that would kind of raise their hand and say, “Yes, I want to do that. Yes, I’m going to do that.” It kind of got me into a bit of a bit of trouble sometimes.

In one of my very first jobs, the small group of us was asked, who wants to be in charge? And I just automatically raised my hand. It was a reflex. That and that it paid $2 more was my big incentive. 2 dollars more was my big incentive to to say, yes of course. And I knew the the very narrow thing that we were supposed to do, but I didn’t know why we were doing it. I didn’t have the big picture.

I volunteered anyway because I recognized that somebody else had faith in me. If they had enough faith to hand that task over, then take it. Whether you think you’re capable or not. They think you—they recognize you as capable or else they wouldn’t have offered.

So that attitude carried through and my most difficult job was a cleanup in Thunder Bay Harbor years later. And this kind of attitude served me quite well I think. The contract kind of went sideways. There were a lot of moving parts in this contract and it was very difficult. And so there were plenty of what I would characterize as failures in that. But it worked out because you just kept kept at it. You just had the resilience, you know you’re going to fail somewhat and you just keep at it. Just it’s part of the process, part of the learning process.

Veronica

Yeah, that’s awesome. I love it. You said that like trusting if someone else has put their faith in you that like they they’ve given it to you for a reason. They believe that you can do it. So like, why wouldn’t you believe in yourself that you can also do it and just go for it?

Paul

Well, a lot of us don’t, right? Yeah, A lot of us feel that that we can’t take that on because we haven’t taken that on. And that’s that’s really unfortunate. That’s yeah, sometimes we need that external opinion, you know. That that starts to change, I hope, later on as you realize—yeah, you survived that, you know, you took that task on, you made some mistakes, but you did start accepting them and realizing it’s not the end of the world.

Veronica

Yeah, you start to trust yourself a bit more, the more that you do it and prove to yourself that you can do it or that it’ll be okay if you can’t do it. And if you fail that you’re going to get through it and it’s going to be okay on the other side.

Paul

I believe the words resilience.

Veronica

Yes, exactly. All right. Thanks so much for that awesome advice. I just want to jump into this exciting new opportunity that you’re doing. So can you tell us a bit more about the new job that you’re starting and what that means for advocacy and education for geoscience across Canada?

Paul

Yeah, for sure. Thank you very much. So I’m starting with Geoscientists Canada as the incoming Chief Executive Officer. And yeah, I’m very excited about it. Just so you know, Geoscientists Canada—just for your for your listeners—is the umbrella organization, national organization, for the Geoscience regulators across the country. So each province and territory has a geoscience regulator and they are the ones that license professionals to do work in geoscience in that province. And Geoscientists Canada is the umbrella organization that is not a regulator. It does outreach and advocacy and makes connections across the country doing projects that are common to all of the regulators. Things like mobility and trying to make it easier to for people to move around and work in different places and and do geoscience. So that’s really what Geoscientists Canada is. You can go to GeoscientistsCanada.ca, it will connect you to information about being professional in different provinces.

So for the last, as I said, the 35 years I’ve been working in environmental consulting, but the last 20 years I’ve also been volunteering at various regulatory organizations. This position allows me to kind of put all the things that I’ve been doing in job and in volunteering in one bucket.

So we’ve been working with various organizations, government, co-regulators, universities, colleges to make geoscience more visible and make more pathways to geoscience and between geoscience related things. And this it’s very relevant to Canada and to the world. A lot of what we do involves our interaction with the Earth.

Quite frankly, we are looking to fill a lot of positions too, in geoscience. There’s a lot of opportunity. One thing that I don’t think the geoscientists have been really good at is telling the world, telling up and coming students and scientists about geoscience and where it fits in and so there’s an effort now to get better at that. And this is all part of my role and I’m quite excited to be doing that in whatever way I can.

So, I just attended a Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences conference on Friday and Saturday and learned about all sorts of initiatives being worked on: art in geology, connecting linkages with Indigenous wisdom and Western knowledge, connecting resources, streamlining the messaging—just to raise the flag that people are needed and to solve some of the big problems that people are working on—that societies are working on.

So yeah, there’s good things going on and we need to find more ways and better ways to reach out to people to tell them about it. There’s tens of thousands of jobs in Canada, good paying jobs, mining, environmental. People I know in oil and gas are working on really interesting carbon sequestration projects. So every field of geoscience is doing some really interesting and remarkable stuff. So we want to talk about it. This will be part of my role, so that’s why I’m excited about it. So thank you for again for inviting me today. This is all part of it.

Veronica

Yeah, of course, for sure. Yeah, I think I think I agree that we haven’t really been very good about communicating what the actual opportunities are and like how many opportunities there are, but also how they can really support or enrich the environment. Because I think sometimes geoscience has a bit of a bad rap in that sense. So what do you think about the current perception of geoscience in society? How do you think it is perceived by people?

Paul

Yeah, I think you’re right. There has been a declining enrolment in geoscience over the last few years and I it’s a bit of a head scratcher to me because I’m seeing how every element of this field can support the public initiatives and social contracts that we’re trying to rewrite in this country. And so it’s a bit perplexing to me.

I haven’t seen any studies that have explained why there’s declining enrolment, but I’m seeing a lot of opportunity and I think that geoscience is in the perfect position to solve some of the things that are being discussed and society is concerned about these days.

And we should take a step back. Geology is a combination of various things. It takes from biology and chemistry and physics and math. It takes these things and created something new. This is what we do. This is who we are. We take things and create something new with it. And that’s as relevant today as it was when geology was first created. Now we have more tools to work with. We recognize that the things that we have put together are more than just technical things like the sciences and math that I just mentioned.

This is a reason why STEM science, technology, engineering and math is now STEAM, or at least it’s becoming that. So you’re adding A, adding an arts component, you’re combining with different things. And we should know that a mine isn’t just about extracting. It can be about balancing and social equity—if we do it right. Just as importantly, a career in oil and gas is important to society right now, and we want good people working on these issues both to help us in this transition out of oil and gas and into things like carbon sequestration.

There’s a lot of important work going on in that field. I know some people who have been in that field for quite some time, and that’s what they’re doing in that field. And wouldn’t you like to be part of that? So even in industries that have been given a bit of a bad rap, there’s this really positive, interesting things going on. We just need to get better, as we said, on telling people what we do, on connecting with important issues and people will see that there’s a need and a real relevancy and for geoscience in Canada.

I think also we should be telling more stories, stories of how what we do affects people, how it reduces their risk, how it improves their health, not “their” but “our” health. And connecting stories to people, connecting the land to people and different knowledges together and talking about our challenges and failures and making new connections. Like there’s some interesting connections between art and geoscience.

If you look at the landscape, you look at a mountain and you see all these layers in the strata. You look at that from a geologist—you’re trying to reconstruct the history of how it got to move there and how the forces pushed it up and folded it and all of this stuff. But then look at it again through an art lens and that that’s also fun. And it’s something—you see different things. So a painter sees things and a stratigrapher doesn’t, and vice versa. And we become part of the world and see a wider perspective when we combine these things.

And we’re starting to combine these things on a project scale and are getting a little bit better at it. And we’re talking about it in national meetings and things like that and getting a little pilot projects going. And so there’s a lot of opportunity to see where that goes.

Veronica

Yeah.

Paul

So it’s been a tremendously positive experience being in geoscience, punctuated by a few major challenges. I would say, much like geology itself is a kind of a long, slow process, punctuated by extreme events. That’s been my experience in geology as well. So there’s a parallel for you and perhaps a story idea.

Veronica

I love that. That’s really creative metaphor. And yeah, I do think that art and geoscience are super interrelated. I did my undergraduate thesis on storytelling about geology and about the environment in New Zealand and the interactions between the stories that people were telling through time and how they sort of explained or referenced the local geology and the volcanoes and the mountains and things like that.

Storytelling is such an old tradition and practice of how we actually communicate things, how we understand the world, how we interact with each other. And that’s that’s so important.

Paul

That’s fantastic. Yeah. You remind me of something—in New Zealand, the Maori and the New Zealand government are co-managing a river there. You might know the river in the northern part of the North Island, I think.

Veronica

Yeah.

Paul

It’s so the river is the person. And this is also the case in Quebec, there’s one, and in some other places.
So we’re figuring out how to combine Indigenous knowledge and protection and Western colonial approach to resource management. And I think it’s fantastic and I don’t think that that comes without storytelling. I think the storytelling is a huge part of this. I didn’t recognize this when I was starting my career and my hat comes off to you because I think it’s it’s a great place to be. I think storytelling and geology are a natural fit and something I did not appreciate when I was going to school.

Veronica

I’m curious like what that was like for you sort of realizing that.

Paul

I was a TA for a first year class. Somebody was taking a visual arts and geology double major and I thought, “that’s weird.” Like, what are you going to do with that? This was my attitude and I laugh at myself now because this person was 30 some odd years ahead of of my thinking. But what she was doing and I hope she’s out there working now, she was talking about storytelling, really. And what am I talking—what what are we talking about now?

So, yeah, I think it’s I think it’s really important and it connects Earth to people. It can create linkages that we can lead truly sustainable lives. If we tell stories about this, how it can work. So we connect different ideas, connect across time scales, time, space, connect knowledges. We can tell stories of ethical challenges—navigating through them.

I mean, sci fi has been doing this for how long, right? A lot of what is written is just talking about ethical challenges in a different environment and we can put it in the context of geology, just like other people have been doing.

So I just think that geoscience is particularly uniquely positioned to do this because of the way that geology was created—physics, biology, chemistry, math, etc. And now we have a chance to make something new yet again. We have more tools, we have a better understanding that there’s a social element to everything that we do. It’s not just a technical element, and we need to be looking at these things together, not just one or the other.

Veronica

Yeah, I love that. I think it’s so true and I think storytelling is all based on relationships as well. So I think relationship and relationship building interacts with the storytelling and the art and the communication and the geoscience and all of those things, how closely related they are and how sometimes we don’t necessarily see that.

Paul

Absolutely. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. You know, we’re not going to solve the challenges that we seek to solve without a better understanding and respect for each other, for the relationships, for different views we run up against. Geology is right in the middle of this. We’ve got people on different sides of the mining question. A new mine—we say we need it for a transition economy, and other people are saying, no, you’re going to destroy the environment. And we’ve got polar opposite views to start with and it can easily degrade into, you know, kind of a disrespect for the other view and just kind of a closing off of listening. And we have to do better than that. We have to understand different perspectives and relationship building is critical.

Now we have to also stay humble. So technical expertise such as geoscience—could be engineering, could be law, could be anything, any professional knowledge—it was described as a monopoly of knowledge, one time. And I just, that has rung in my in my head quite a bit. And the whole idea of an expert is something that we covet, we we value.

But what we don’t talk about enough is, other people are the experts of their own lived experiences.

Veronica

Yep

Paul

They might not have a technical degree, they might not have been recognized in a court as an expert, but they are the expert of their own experience, and that has value, a lot of value. And we’re only waking up to this now I think. So even perspectives—oh, wait, you, mean there’s been a perspective that’s been around for 9000 years? What is it? Thank you to the Indigenous people for being so patient.

You know, I was on an environmental cleanup in northern Ontario. My role was as a peer reviewer. So to see what the decision makers were doing and critique them, make sure that the community’s interests were were represented on a technical level.

Now people came into the community having all the answers. They had the technical solutions from day one, but they never stopped to ask: “What is the problem that they’re there to solve?” They just assumed that the problem was this contaminant problem. Well, the community had a very different idea of what the problem was.

The core issue was, yes, clean it up, of course, but around that, well, how do you do that? So there were some differences in what the nation felt about this, what the problem was and what the technical solution was being offered. It was, there was differences. And the project stalled for years because this question was not asked in the beginning. So the nation had ideas on this, but it didn’t form the basis for the project.

You never stopped ask—well, it’s linked to health issues and it’s linked to quality of life issues that weren’t considered. We kind of assumed we had a monopoly of knowledge—we being the wider we—that we really didn’t have any basis for assuming. And so it was worked out, but it did slow things down for for quite a while, and there were some some tense moments.

So I think if you look around, you see people with different views on things. Quite often the question hasn’t been asked, “What is your view?” early enough in the process and wasn’t respected. If we want to solve the big problems, even on the community scale to global scale, we need to be able to respect other people’s views and relationship build, and build trust, and ask what is the problem. So it might be that there is poverty in the community, that there’s going to be a new mine. Well, then that’s the perceived problem. It’s not—so try to work on that. Try to work on that, because that’s the important thing to the people who live there. So those are the challenges.

And to bring it back and full circle, I think geosciences is very well suited because this is what we do. We take bits of disparate information and we put it together, and we create something new. And I think fundamentally people really care about other people in this field and want to do something worthwhile. And there’s lots of opportunity to do that.

Veronica

Hmm. That’s awesome. With all this talk about the perception of geoscience in society, what do you think is some of the ways that we can actually work on changing the perception?

Paul

Yeah, that’s a great question. And fortunately there is a number of people working on this now, but I think one of the issues is that geoscience may appear to be antiquated somehow—that we’re about mining and oil and gas and that’s it. And none of that is actually true.

I think new people entering a field changes that. What do new people want? What do people of the high school level, say? What are they looking for now in in the career choice? And I think it’s all there in geoscience. But you know, this is yeah, sure, I have a bias but I think that reaching out to high school students such as such as you’re doing with this is is the absolute right way to go.

The reason is not just, you know, a recruitment drive for our profession sake. I really sincerely believe that this is an opportunity for people to steer geoscience in a way that makes it better for themselves, gives them a good living, and makes it better for those people around them, and solves some of these big issues that we’re working on.

Another thing I’ll say about geoscience is that it’s not so big a field that it’s hard to steer. It’s not the Titanic. I really don’t think that it is. I think it’s nimble. And I think that’s that’s attractive. Quick change is something that I think people are looking for, and to make a difference.

Veronica

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I love what you said earlier about how if we want to address environmental issues, we have to go back to the Earth and learn how it works. Right? We can’t, you know, fix climate change without understanding the Earth’s processes. That’s a cool opportunity for geoscientists.

Paul

Yeah. We only have one planet, right? At least right now. There’s only one planet.

Veronica

All right. Yeah. Okay. So to end, what is your favourite geologic feature that you’ve visited? Specifically in Canada.

Paul

Oh, gosh, it’s so many. I mean, my yearly trips to the East Coast makes me kind of bias things towards that area. So instantly I think of the flower pots of the Bay of Fundy and just the magnitude of the the tides there—is a first thing that I think about.

And then I think about Gros Morne park and ancient frozen volcanoes that I climb up. And then, you know, there’s ice at the top. After a long, hot climb, you grab a piece of glacier and drink that back.

So it’s kind of like combining the the feature itself with the experience. And of course, jagged sandstones of the east coast of Nova Scotia, the place I grew up. And you don’t walk with sandals even though you should and you hurt your feet all along, but that’s part of the experience.

All of that is to say those are the things that instantly come to mind. But I thought, you know, one of my favourite geological features is maybe the least obvious, and that’s the Hudson Bay Lowlands. These breathing lands, as many call them.

Veronica

So just for our listeners, the Hudson Bay Lowlands are a wetland that’s located just north of the Canadian Shield. So right where the Canadian shield ends and just south of Hudson Bay as well as James Bay. Most of it is in Ontario, just the very far north of Ontario with also a bit in Manitoba and Quebec. It’s one of the largest wetlands actually in the world, its the largest wetland in Canada and also has a very massive peat bog or peatlands, a large part of the wetland is peat.

Paul

This has everything. This is a geo diverse area, a biodiverse area. It’s a carbon sink five times more effective than the Amazon.

Veronica

Wow.

Paul

Square meter to square meter. They’ve got mineral reserves there. And you’ve got the chance to do everything right. So it’s like everything is there. And it’s a beautiful place, I’ve been there numerous times. It’s a wonderful place that deserves our attention and our respect. From the community level all the way to the global planetary level—that place has it all.

So it’s meant to be a fun question, so that has to be the winner. Even though I’ve really enjoyed the physical beauty of other places and the experiences. This one wins out as the geological feature. And it’s right here in Ontario. It’s all of ours for gathering around the circle and doing it right.

Veronica

I love that, I love that imagery.

Paul

An interesting thing is if you look at the peatlands of the planet, they’re really only second to the ones that are in Russia. But it’s massive. It’s huge. And, you know, we talk about the Amazon being the lungs of the planet. Well, in terms of carbon sinks, this potentially could be even larger. And it’s not something we really talk about a lot.

And there’s studies being done now to try to put better numbers on that because the uncertainty is pretty high right now. So it just goes to show that there’s opportunity in places that we, you know, hadn’t been looking before. Opportunity to affect things on a not only a nation scale, but a community scale, and a global scale.

Veronica

Yeah, that’s really cool. I think we don’t necessarily talk about the peatlands that much in the climate change conversation. I’m curious if, you know, if there’s a reason why—so you said Russia and Ontario are kind of the main major peatlands—is there a geologic reason why they’re in the northern Hemisphere for the most part, or is it that kind of just by chance?

Paul

Well, I’m not the best one to answer that. I think there’s really good explanations on these websites. But yeah, just the combination of flat topography and areas that have allowed a lot of slow accumulation of humic and fulvic acids—like organic matter—over time and just slow process. And glaciation. So glaciation kind of scraped everything off and then as the land rebound slowly and these processes continue slowly, those areas just have been in the in the right geographic location to to collect this organic material and not lose it—it’s not really subject to erosion. It’s kind of stuff there.

That’s that’s my probably too simple description of it. But the real answers are probably found on those websites.

Veronica

Cool, cool, cool. I love that answer, that’s really fun—that’s the Hudson Bay lowlands is your favourite geologic feature.

Paul

It’s not something I would have answered ten years ago.

Veronica

Right, right, exactly.

Paul

Ten years ago I wouldn’t have answered it that way. I’d be thinking—what’s the what’s the tallest peak and what’s the best hiking place and what’s etc. And yeah, so perspectives change.

And there’s a lot of amazing places though, and there’s a lot of work being done to find UNESCO’s World Heritage sites. So there’s a lot of discussion on where the next World Heritage sites should be in Canada. And if you have any ideas—if your listeners have any ideas—especially ones in the western provinces.

And so this is all part of the outreach too. The excitement of—we’ve got some really interesting places. And so that’s part of the outreach as well, getting those out there and working on recognition because for some reason we think that if other people recognize it, it must have value.

So yes, so sometimes we don’t recognize it ourselves. And that goes for a personal level, as I was saying before. Sometimes you don’t know your own value until somebody points it out and says, you can do this. Well, we sometimes feel that way about about our profession, about our geography, the area we live in. We don’t recognize until somebody points it out and says, “Hey, this is special.” So yeah.

Veronica

Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think part of that is recognizing the cool geology in Canada and what we actually have here. So amazing. Well, thanks so much for coming and for talking about all of these amazing things.

Paul

Oh, you’re so welcome. So much fun.

Veronica

Thanks so much for listening to our conversation with Paul Hubley, the new CEO of Geoscience Canada, where we talked about his career, life advice and how we can start to create a more accurate perception of geoscience in society. We talked about how earth science is vital to wrestling with the big issues of our time, like climate change and environmental damage, and the importance of relationship building, storytelling and listening in addressing these issues as well.

I’m Veronica Klassen, science communicator and geology enthusiast. As a reminder, please note that the opinions and views expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the APGO Education Foundation. If you want to learn more, visit us at GeoscienceINFO.com, where you can find our GeoHikes, podcast transcripts, and additional resources. You can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at GeoscienceINFO or on LinkedIn and Facebook at APGO Education Foundation.

Stay curious and keep exploring the incredible world beneath your feet.

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